The Bible

I don't think they can. I believe the gifts of the Spirit died with John.

Another thing is, if these people are TRULY speaking in tongues, they have to have an interpeter to make it valid. I've NEVER seen ANYONE who had one of those nowdays.

I have only heard of it. I don't KNOW if its true or not, but I still think it COULD possibly happen "today" if you know what I mean... I'd have to study it. :-D

Civility_C wrote:

I don't think they can. I believe the gifts of the Spirit died with John.

Another thing is, if these people are TRULY speaking in tongues, they have to have an interpeter to make it valid. I've NEVER seen ANYONE who had one of those nowdays.

Since I dropped by I thought I'd comment on something.

There is a woman in our church who has spoken in toungues numerous times, and she transylated it herself.

I think this is the verse that talks about it.

.1 Corinth 14:5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified"

I think its implying that the speaker can interpret himself/herself correct? or am I mistaken. I'll check back to see this one.
(btw its just the font Jesus didnt speak this for you that are mentally impaired:D

If I'm correct about this being authentic, which I've seen and heard this a few times and it was quite clear, then it didnt die with John. However, I'm open to discussion. *cough cough,civ*

oh, and we've also had other poeple transylate for her and a couple other poeple. jsut a footnote;)

Actually Oppie, if you fo a little further, heres what it says:

1 Corinthians 14: 6Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? 7 If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? 8And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle? 9So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air.10There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning, 11but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. 12So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.

13Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. 15What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. 16Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say "Amen" to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? 17For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up. 18I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.


Vs 5:
Here the plural, "tongues" appears as Paul was referring to the real gift of languages (vs 2:
For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.). Obviously, this was not Paul’s true desire, even for the true gift, since the very idea was impossible and contrary to God’s sovereign distribution of gifts (12:11: All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. 12:30: Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?) He was simply suggesting hypothetically that, if they insisted on clamoring after gifts they did not posses, they should at least seek the one that was more enduring and more valuable for the church. The only purpose tongues renders to the church is when its interpreted (the normal Greek word for "translation"). Wherever God gave the gift of languages, He also gave the gift for translation, so that the sign would be edifying. Never was the gift used without such a translation (vs 28: But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.), so that the church would always be edified.


Vs 6:
Even an apostle who spoke in tongues did not spiritually benefit a congregation unless, through interpretation, his utterance was clarified so that the revelation and knowledge could be understandably preached and taught. Any private use of this gif is excluded for several reasons: 1) it is a sign to unbelievers (vs 22:
Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign [url=][/url]
not for unbelievers but for believers.) 2) it must have a translator to have any meaning even to the speaker (vs 2:For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.); and 3) it must edify the church (vs 6).




I'll have to get the rest to you later. I need to get going

holy crap.....lol...


ok so MAYBE you're right...(no you are )




Although, I dont think its "dead" persay. Perhaps dorment would be a more apporopriate word?

*whinces for fear of being backhanded by civ*

Dorment? Nope. See, the tongue of gifts is one of the lesser gifts because you need another person to be able to do anything. The gift of tongues only resurfaces with the charismatic (sp??) movment in the 19th century. Until then, there really isn't any mention of it....

I'll post more later. I've got sewing for a historic site and a bunch of other stuff for a reenactment in two weeks.

I'm not going to say anything more. Like you said, its really irrelevant what either of us thinks.......

so, I'm just gonna be going:)


I probably wont come back here for a long time, so farewell my friends

Farewell Oppie, this site won't be the same without you around

Not again.

You know, if the gift of the spirit did with Paul then that means God doesn't care for us like he did back then.

Mormonism is founded on the principle that God does love us like he did in olden times. We do believe that after the apostles died, the gifts were taken away because of the fact that people twisted the principles and ordinances to fit thier way of thinking. We believe however, that it did come back to us in these latter days, and, as such, miracles have increased.

Anyways, isn't it intresting, that doctors believe in God more then scientists do?

No offense IBG, But mormonism also says that the Indians came over in wooded submarines... not to mention a lot of other things just like that.

If gifts disappear, how do you explain people like Francis of Assisi and the martyrs? any martyrs?

Gifts include teaching, preaching, administration and organization, etc. and they certainly didn't disappear from history.

Follow-up. The fruit of the spirit is more important than sepcific gifts anyway, IMHO.

she's talking about those specific gifts. do yourself a favor, dont pick an unessecary fight with civ.

Quote :

No offense IBG, But mormonism also says that the Indians came over in wooded submarines

LOL!!!! Another of people misconseptions of mormonism. They came over on regular boats, not submarines. That was a totally diffrent group of people Civ. If you want, I can pm you the details on the group that was with the wooden submarines.

IBG...i dont think you know a whole lot about your own prophet. There is a LOT about Joseph Smith that even mormon preachers wont tell they're apprentices until they can be trsuted. know what that means?

People been making up rumors about Joseph Smith? lol. Most of the 'facts' that people produce about him, are all farces.

On a more serious note, I would like you to tell me something I don't know about my own prophet. You'll have a very hard time Oppie. I have read books on him from both point-of-views.

How 'bout this: He wasn't a prophet. Biblically, to be a prophet, every prediction you have has to come true. Theres a lot that JS predicted that didn't come true.

Not yet but later. You guys all believe Isiah to be a prophet. And yet, not all of his visions have come true yet. Same thing with Joesph Smith.

Now, I will ask the you guys let me believe he is, without bashing him. I don't care if you guys don't believe, but let me and others on this site believe what we want.

I don't go saying the Pope is an imbecile. I would appreciate if you guys show the same curtosy to me and other Mormons.



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Oh really? So theres going to be another CW between north and south starting in SC?

Nope.

Did I ever say there was?

Then here we go.

Prophecy from JS: "Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls; And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place. For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations. And it shall come to pass, after many days, slaves shall rise up against their masters, who shall be marshaled and disciplined for war. And it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land will marshal themselves, and shall become exceedingly angry, and shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation. And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations"

Although the Civil War did occur, it was never "poured out upon all nations" and did not lead to "a full end of all nations." Also, slaves did not rise up in rebellion against their masters. In other words, a lot of this prophecy never in fact came to pass. And the part that did aparently come to pass, the starting of the Civil War in South Carolina, and the Southern States fighting the Northern States, was something that could easily have been discerned as early as 1832, as the political situation was indeed very volatile at that time in South Carolina. The war was certainly not "poured out upon all nations", and we still have nations in the 21st century, and had them after the Civil War too, so there was no "full end of all nations". Therefore the prophecy is false.

And I don't go around bashing the Pope, though he recently has to us....

The sinking of the Alabama. It was in the ocean by france.

It was talking about the wars that came after the Civil War. There have been alot more wars since the Civil War was fought.

And, I was meaning that there was not going to be another Civil War.