Causes of the War

Lol, they about equal each other anyhow.

Anyone who thinks slavery is not the only cause of the war, please give a source from 1850 to 1861 giving another specific reason. The talk about any other reason only came after the war was over.
Every mention of states rights, for instance, (except 1832 on the tariff) was about slavery.

BTW, most of the states that left the union didn't even put Lincoln's name on their presidential ballots because they were so paranoid about an abolutionist president.

Reb, what makes you think Lincoln was an "abolutionist president"? A little known fact is that Lincoln was actually in favor of the States' right to secceed during his days in congress. He never advocated emancipation of all slaves, including in the Emancipation Proclomation of 1863. And I never heard that Southern states didn't include Lincoln's name on their ballots...

Two points, 1) The south thought he was abolitionist or they would not have left the union. He said otherwise, but they did not believe him. Again, check the contemporary sources. (Historical actions have to be judged by what people thought and beleived at the time, not with hindsight.)

2)Check out websited on the 1860 election, some like the Wikipedia entry list states that did not have Lincoln on the ballot.

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right
to rise up and shake off the existing government and form a new one that suits
them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right, which we hope and
believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which
the whole people of an existing government, may choose to exercise it. Any
portion of such people that can, may revolutionize, and make their own, of so
much territory as they inhabit." -- Abraham Lincoln

"If I thought this war was to abolish
slavery, I would resign my commission, and offer my sword to the other
side." --- General Ulysses S. Grant

"There are at present many Coloured men in
the Confederate Army doing duty not only as cooks, servants and labourers, but
real soldiers, having muskets on their shoulders, and bullets in their
pockets." -- Frederick Douglas

Some insightful quotes.

The South was afraid of the new Republican Party, which they felt was designed specifically for the subjugation of the South. The Democratic party had been in control of the White House for about the past 60 years, and the situation had been far from smooth. With Republicans in office, things would have come unhinged in no time, and Southerners knew it.

Unhinged for slavery, but not for anything else. The south wasn't worried about taxes, tariffs, militia, etc but only slavery.

Let me remind you that only 5% of whites in the South owned slaves, and in that 5% most only owned a few (2-3 maybe).

Yes they were. During Andrew Jackson's presidency South Carolina threatened to secede because of tariffs (and A. J. threatened to send troops in), Abe was all for tariffs, and the South knew it.

“I was an old Henry Clay-Tariff Whig. In old times
I made more speeches on that subject than any other. I have not since changed
my views.” Lincoln

DCCCfC aka General Lee wrote:

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right
to rise up and shake off the existing government and form a new one that suits
them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right, which we hope and
believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which
the whole people of an existing government, may choose to exercise it. Any
portion of such people that can, may revolutionize, and make their own, of so
much territory as they inhabit." -- Abraham Lincoln

"If I thought this war was to abolish
slavery, I would resign my commission, and offer my sword to the other
side." --- General Ulysses S. Grant"There are at present many Coloured men in
the Confederate Army doing duty not only as cooks, servants and labourers, but
real soldiers, having muskets on their shoulders, and bullets in their
pockets." -- Frederick Douglas

Some insightful quotes.

But Grant did not resign once the Emancipation Procalmation was issued.

As for Lincoln's quote, when prople attempt to exercise it, they should expect the governement they want to get away from to want to keep them in the existing government.

Funny how you have to quote Lincoln to give credence to the succession movement--that's the most solid peic of evidence out there.

As foir F. Douglas, he may have heard that, but but what are his sources? And if that were true, why did Jeff Davis refused to even consider Pat Cleburne's proposal for over a year? If blacks wewre already fighting, then officially acdepting them as soldiers and encouraging them to help with the need for troops in 1864-1865 would not be unreasonable. Yet Davis and many of his generals thought it was. Something doesn't make sense.

Blacks served as camp cooks and the like. A few slaves did kill yanks, the Civil War Battles dvds has an interview on it where they talk about some blacks did fight in battle (including Forrests' slave), but before May 1865, when it became official they were almost nil.

Rebel thunder wrote:

But Grant did not resign once the Emancipation Procalmation was issued.

As we all know, the Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves that were fueling the Confederacy's economy, and thereby benefiting the Southern war effort; Lincoln allowed slavery to remain intact in the border states. That is why Grant did not resign his commision; it was not a true Emancipation Proclamation to begin with, only a feable attempt of Lincoln's of exerting power over a region that the U.S. had lost, an attempt to disrupt the South's economy, and simultaneously, by putting an abolition-flavored heading on the document, temporarily satisfying northern abolitionists who were already breathing down his neck.

Rebel thunder wrote:

As for Lincoln's quote, when prople attempt to exercise it, they should expect the governement they want to get away from to want to keep them in the existing government.

Funny how you have to quote Lincoln to give credence to the succession movement--that's the most solid peic of evidence out there.

I'm sure you can see the effectiveness of showing that the North's own leaders had, at one time, before they had become personally involved in the political strife and responsibilities of the outcome of the conflict, believed in the fundamental, democratic principles which the South stood for.

Whenever Lincoln said it, the point is no governement would let parts of the nation walk away if that governement had any choice.

The tariff example as pointed out, is 1832. No one has, and no one can, come up with a quote from between 1850 and 1861 that refers to succession for any reason except slavery. BTW The of ordanences of succession are exhibits 1-13 in favor of slavery as the one and only cause.

PS: Why was the 1860 Democratic convention split and then reconvened?--it certainly wasn't over tariffs.

The onlt way the Emancipation Proclamation hurt the Sotuh was blacks took it liberaly. Really, it had no effect, since the South didn't even recognize the authority of the Lincoln administration, and it left the slaves that were in areas in the South occupied by Union forces with thier masters.

The Emancipation Proclamation hurt the South in another way. It finished off any hope of foriegn recognition because no european country wanted to be seen as supporting slavery.

Granted the chances of recognition were slim, but the EP was the final nail in the coffin.

Ah yes. I almost forgot that. That's what I get for posting at 2 in the morning and right after work I guess. lol.

Slaves slaves slaves...why are we always arguing about the slaves? Both sides had them, though the south had a substantialy higher count. Slavery, is not the reason this war was fought. It was over power.

Slavery was the only thing North and South never could compromise on. They compromised on everything else but slavery.

you could go into more detail about that..BUT I REFRAIN.