Who Do YOU View As Right; Part 2; Stuart turns Yankee

I think we've all noticed how the actual CW topics have slowed down due to the lack of northern supporters. So, for the pure sake of research and a better understanding of the subject, I'm going to try and go against my better instincts and provide some debate here. Let's make this "Who Do YOU View as Right; Part 2", and yes, for this one topic, I'll support the North.

And I'm really counting on Gen. Lee to give the South a good showing.

come on we all know the North was right. If they hadn't been so intent on keeping the country together we might now have the South having so many sneak into the country they left. Ha ha

STAURT! Nooooooo Don't do it!!!!

Look what has happend to you!




Um... Well, the reason Lincoln wanted to keep the union together was becasue he thought that the US was going to be a big part of the in times...

Could be, but so far the US is one of the big players in the world, I am just glad we are all in the same country

Oh don't get me wrong, I like being in the US, but sometimes I wonder if it would have turned out diffrently.

The hearts of men are easily corrupted, all would have happened the same in the end. Because selfish people will always find there way into power.

Anyways................................this should be intresting. Stuart vouching for the north..........hmm.....not sure if I like this..

I know, it's hard to believe. And that was really funny Civ.

But back to topic, I think that the North was right. (This isn't coming natural to me, so somebody give me something to refute )

Well for a change I am going to argue like the yanks in that I will use great logic to prove my point...

The North wasnt right because most of the Northern people were hypocrites and they just hated the South because the South was good.

Ok enough of those tecinques... The South had the right to secede, the founders themselves seceded from England. Why would they have said that others could not do the same thing as they had done. Also America wasnt founded with the belief that it would be a perfect union would never go sour and therefore never need to be disolved.

True, Lee. But assuming here that the South did have the right to succeed, did they have a justifiable reason to? Why were they succeeding? If it wasn't over the right to keep slavery, what was it? They were obviously so intimidated by Lincoln's election that they weren't even going to stick around and see what would come of it; they went off half-cocked and succeeded anyway, which showed their utter disregard for the Union, for peace, for a political solution, and their over-eagerness to go to war, if that is what would come of it.

True, and as I study more I am getting the vibe that the south didnt interpret the constitution correctly when they said it gave them the right to seccede. What was going on cannot largely be compared to what happened before the american revolution. A long train of abuses and userpations doesnt apply in whole to the tarrifs and other things that the north demanded.

Be quiet Oppie, I'm only pretending to support the North.

Well pretend better.

"everything's make believe...."

The Opposition wrote:

True, and as I study more I am getting the vibe that the south didnt interpret the constitution correctly when they said it gave them the right to seccede. What was going on cannot largely be compared to what happened before the american revolution. A long train of abuses and userpations do/-*esnt apply in whole to the tarrifs and other things that the north demanded.

ok I know Im not suppose to argue with oppie here but.... why does it not apply to tariffs?

back you the person Im SUPPOSED to be debating. When the 13 colonies seceded from England atleast one of the reasons they did so was taxes. Same with the South. Also they knew Lincolns record and they knew he was going to tighten the noose of taxes on them. If you look at Lincolns record you find that he supported 1 a Federal Bank (namely our money system of today ) 2 internal improvements (an unconstitutional impovements plan which was very wasteful and unequally distributed tax money in favor of the North vs. the South. 3 he was unsaved. his wife said so and all his friends said so... In fact when he was in Springfield he would go to church so that he could mock it. (want more info buy the Rethinking Lincoln casette series) 4 his record regularally supported higher tariffs.

All these things went against a compartivally constitutionally christian South. They saw seccession as the only way to salvage at least part of what the constitution stood for.

The South was unwilling to give, while involved in a give-and-take government. Lincoln's record may indicate one thing, but his entire campaign platform indicated that he would be far more conservative. Remember, he only recently joined the Republican Party, and adapted to its platform, while much of his voting record was incurred while a Whig. The South was unwillling to wait and see. And anybody who is not capable of compromise in incapable of living in a Republic.

And I wouldent count his wife's statement (or anyone elses against his faith as the reasons you believe he wasnt a Christian. No man(or woman) can see into the heart of another man(or woman), that is not for us to decide. Look at his life at make your deductions but dont do it based on the oppinions of others that were around him that were obviously judging his heart.

To you Oppie... A good tree bears good fruit. Lincoln did not have good fruit. Now I agree with you that I cant say that he assuredly went to hell. But if your own wife does not believe you to be saved than you more than likely arent. btw You could take the essence of your post and use it to defend Hitler.

Ok back to the person Im supposed to be debating... The Republican party was the reincarnation of the Whig party. And his former voting record carried through. And for the arguement that the South should have waited.... If your town voted as mayor a man who had been a mayor before in a different town and had proven himself to be a bad mayor who didnt respect the law... would you wait and see if he would prove himself to be bad or would you leave town? This might be a bad example please say so if you think so.

Look, any example can be used to illustrate a point. But that is NOT the point. The south secceeded out of instinct, not out of honor for the constituion. And you have illustrated that by your last post.

It wasnt out of disrespect of the Constitution... it was out of nessecessity to preserve the Constitution. The Constitution which was being violated by the North. They did honor the Constitution... and thats why their constitution is almost a perfect replica. Btw Oppie... You didnt reply to the part of my last post which was directed to you.

The Opposition wrote:

Iron Brigade General wrote:

The Confederate
Constitution was pretty much just a cheap imitation of the US one. The
Premeble has alot in common. Pretty much the only diffrence was the
fact they emphesis States Rights and Slavery. But, in actuality, when
you study the Confed version, you descover it actually gives the
central government more power then the US one does and limits in
several respects the rights of the states.

Hee hee, someone's doing there homework.

General Stuart wrote:

A cheap imitation? The whole point was to
create a similar republic, with the same ideals, but to protect the
rights of the States in particular. It basically was the US
constitution, if you hadn't figured that out, maybe in different
language, but it guaranteed the same rights and powers of the
government. It only made a slight, "revision" if you will. I thought
that was obvious......

I copied this from the Constitution Southern Style thread.

Look dont go back on an old argument. IBG and I clearly won that debate.

DCCCfC aka General Lee wrote:

To you Oppie... A good tree bears good fruit. Lincoln did not have good fruit. Now I agree with you that I cant say that he assuredly went to hell. But if your own wife does not believe you to be saved than you more than likely arent. btw You could take the essence of your post and use it to defend Hitler.

Ok back to the person Im supposed to be debating... The Republican party was the reincarnation of the Whig party. And his former voting record carried through. And for the arguement that the South should have waited.... If your town voted as mayor a man who had been a mayor before in a different town and had proven himself to be a bad mayor who didnt respect the law... would you wait and see if he would prove himself to be bad or would you leave town? This might be a bad example please say so if you think so.

Umm, only a fanatic would try to do that. Why are you even suggesting that Lee? Are you compareing Lincoln to Hitler? Because that could be implied but what you posted.

No Im just saying that that argument could be aplied to Hitler... It could be aplied to anyone who's goodness is in question. Example: Say I was trying to prove that Lee was a Christian when you are giving evidence to the contrary... I could use that post to defend him. Overall that post uses a very lame argument.

Btw you and IBG didnt win that argument... And if you will notice... that quote I posted of yours and IBG's is saying that the CSA constition was a cheap imitation but yet here you say that the Confederates didnt honor the US Constitution.

Your Friend General Lee

Umm, dont the two coincide, Lee?

Explain yourself.